Bicycle Fit Evolution

NOT QUITE ON TOPIC
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So, a little about me.

I used to be a SICI system bike fitter a la Serotta (dating myself) for my Racer’s Edge and Wilderness Sports team days in Summit. I worked a bit with Andy Pruitt too before he went to CU Sports Med doing the same. He helped me with a running injury and one thing led to another with bicycle fitting. I’ve put a lot of butts in saddles lol. Eventually, all the systems meld together and a great fit becomes more about the rider’s unique body, what they want to accomplish, core strength, experience, etc. than the system that prescribes such and such.

I noticed that the roadie world is quickly evolving to a system where the rider is basically wrapping their position forward around the BB. Reach to bars is stretching forward as much as 20mm (which seems nuts to me). Patella positioned plumb over pedal spindle seems to be no longer a reference point as saddles move forward. The whole idea, as I read, seems to be to integrate aero of the frame with the aero of the rider as a single unit. Previously, the aero of a frame didn’t integrate with making a rider more aero, per se.

MTB designers are playing with the 36" wheel format. Dang I remember when I was bleeding edge with my 650b hardtail before 29" really took hold.

I don’t pedal anymore. I had a great career riding the Front Range in the mid 80s - mid 90s. White Ranch only ever had a couple of cars in the Belcher Hill bottom lot and I’d get excited when I came across another rider because there was one more person who joined the MTB community. Then I moved to Summit and it got even better. MTB designs got better. Full suspension moved into xc (which was crazy back then). When I moved back to Boulder in 2012 the density of trail riders was too intense for me. Road rides had too many squirrelly riders that you just could not trust the wheel in front of you and the cars behind you. I suppose it’s all relative to one’s experiences and expectations.

Honestly, it was my personal experiences with fellow riders enduring horrific crashes, MTB etiquette vaporizing and trails getting chewed up so quickly as speeds increased. I’d still go to Summit, Eagle and Buff Creek (I remember Buff Creek before the '96 fire. It was fully wooded) because there was still a legacy experience. But that has changed to a more dense experience too. Moab in the 80s and 90s was waaay different than it is today. Heck, I remember volunteering to build the Rustler trail in Loma. That was a lot of fun and then, boom!, Fruita and Grand Junction was way more amazing than Moab …or different is probably a better characterization than more amazing. It was new.

Anyway, I still geek out on bicycles. The evolution of fit and design is pretty neat to watch. I still evaluate a rider’s fit and skill as I’m cruising down the road. “Your saddle is too high!” “Your cadence is way too slow.” “Grab some more gear inch.” I’m a great critic lol.

Now I’m part of this moto community. I appreciate the core values of a well orchestrated community. Safety, process, purpose …all meaningful things to me. I feel like I’ve recentered back to my earlier era of cycling …somewhat.

I know some of you also love pedaling. I’d love to hear about your experiences. I was into the endurance races. I lived in Leadville when Bill Perkins (Founder of Red Feather Snowshoes) basically gave the 100 foot race away to Ken Chlouber. The Breck 100, Firecracker 50, Denver Aspen Classic (a Randonneur ride of maybe 10 people back in the day), the early days of the Triple when it was less than 300 peeps, 24 Hours of Moab. Soon enough 24 hour races were everywhere. I did the Hartman Rocks race but Moab was my go to.

Anyway, back to the fit evolution …hopefully moto fit won’t evolve radically too …lol. Seems unlikely. But who knows?

Cheers!
Nick

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I have always been sensitive to pedal bike geometry and fit.

I appreciate how bike makers pay attention to geometry as a primary means of designing the character of the ride, and how adding a bike fitting can totally transform one’s experience and performance on the bike. In other words, it’s important.

When I jumped onto dirt bikes, where body position is so critical to performance, I was surprised to find that frame geometry, or more importantly, rider triangle geometry, seems to be an afterthought.

If you get lucky and like the way the bike feels, great. If not, well, there’s very little you can do about it. Move the bars around a bit, maybe move the pegs a bit, hope that works.

I dream of adjustable dirt bike rider triangles like factory roadracers have. In that regard, @Shifty , I hope moto geometry DOES evolve radically!

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Good point @Jimmy_Changa. I’m not very savvy with moto fit. I’ve been watching ideal foot pegs and bar setup on YT. I think my CRF is pretty good for me. I raised my bar a little with ProTaper swap … but not so much to take me out of an athletic ready position. I’ve seen where some mfg apparently have the pegs too far forward …CFMoto I think.

I also have heard that there’s a tendency for some ADV riders to stand too tall with straight knees.

I adjusted my foot shift lever to be suited to standing instead of sitting. Same with bar levers. I’m learning.

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I’ve read that the AJP triangle is odd, and when the T7s first came out there was talk about the tank and bar position being super high.

My Beta 300 felt like I was riding a Harley - feet forward and bars back. Given where the bike’s natural leg pinch point is, my hips were always behind the pegs. I felt like I was hanging off the bars in climbs. Wore my arms out, couldn’t steer the bike with my hips, was putting too much input into the bars, and I sucked as a result.

I found a set of pegs made in…Croatia? Poland? can’t remember, Carapaks is the name…that dropped the foot 5mm down and 10mm back. Huge improvement. But still not quite enough. Would like another 5mm further back. But they don’t make that, nor did anyone else at the time.

Pushing the bar clamps to the forward-most position on the triple made it easier to get over the bars, too. The Beta has that option. Not all bikes do.

After these two things, tweaking bar rotation and bend, and adjusting lever position is pretty much all that’s possible. You get 10mm here, 5mm there, and I had to find one small company (guy in a shed, probably) in Eastern Europe to get some of that adjustment. Maybe there are more products for fit adjustment for different, more mainstream brands?

As for body position on the bike, and how it needs to change for different situations - that’s a topic worthy of a master class unto itself.

To me, if you’re not doing the right thing with your body at the right time, you won’t be riding well no matter how good your throttle, clutch, and brake control is. Go watch Johann Zarco win the 2025 French MotoGP in the rain for a stunning example of what dynamic body weight transfer can do to help manage traction and find grip.

I have noticed that some ADV riders have unhelpful standing positions - straight back, head up, almost-locked knees, elbows low, like they’re looking for something they lost all…the…way…out…there. :grinning_face_with_smiling_eyes: I was guilty of the same until I was kindly told to stop doing that.