As the, so far, lone DS only poll respondent, I’ll share that I am planning to acquire another moto in ‘26. I struggle justifying getting another ADV. I had a 94 R1100GS for 11 years when I lived in the central Rockies. It was an awesome bike. 75% of the miles were tarmac. For the occasional off-roading I did do, it was almost always tame terrain. I did venture into technical terrain over and over and I almost always regretted it for all of the reasons that we already know. One time, I got way in over my head in Grand Staircase Escalante. It was the wrong end of the “epic” spectrum …if you know what I mean.
There are a lot of awesome ADVs …the KTM 890 is likely my top choice of the bunch because it is so technical terrain weighted in overall composition. But I am concerned that it’ll just end up being another 75% tarmac ripper and the bane of my existence when the dirt gets techie …I really like dynamic techie off road stuff that is within a reasonable spectrum of my abilities …on a scale of 1 - 10, I’m likely good with a 7 tops …maybe an 8? with a 300+ lbs DS and a 63 year old brain and body. Add another 180 lbs and I’m probably at a 5 tops …maybe a 7?
I would love to be guided to another perspective. So many of you have a ton of ADV experience that I would happily consider. I would be very grateful to consider your perspective. I intentionally got my 450RL DS and modified it to be even more tech terrain capable. It’s an awesome platform for me. But another bike is coming …just don’t absolutely know what yet and I want to have zero remorse. I don’t see any touring in my future and if I did, I’d likely rent a bike. I like the paved canyons. I’m literally a mile from Coal Creek Canyon’s east entrance. Don’t want a track bike. A scrambler is attractive. A sport cruiser is also attractive. At least 20 liters of storage is important. It can’t be ugly. It can’t be a mechanical nightmare including poor indy and stealership support experiences …so many ugly bikes today, yeesh! A few mechanical PITAs out there too.
If an ADV, then longer distance and time in the saddle than my DS… So, increase comfort, fuel/range, tarmac steadiness and speed …decrease vibration, wind buffeting …retain technical off road whoop factor. I’d also want to weekend canyon rip the tarmac …rip is not really demonstrative of knee dragging type of riding. Just carving beautiful turns at 10 - 30 mph above the speed limit …wind therapy. It would be the BDR / camping bike.
I have a vehicle (T4R) to hitch mount and I also have a trailer. My ride has enough modified ass end to safety hitch and haul a 500 lbs bike.
Should also ask where you’d place yourself on the Explorer to Ripper scale with regards to how fast / challenging you like to ride in the dirt.
Also, I’ve seen the market move towards smaller / mid size bikes as BDRs have become more popular and the population that rides them has become “more mature,” you could say.
790/890/901 tips towards the Ripper When You Wanna Be scale, but size and weight should be a concern as we age. I just can’t so say no to the speed and performance, and lean heavily towards the Ripper scale but I train very intentionally to have the fitness required at times.
690/701 are probably more age appropriate choices for masters riders leaning towards Ripper.
Scaling down in performance but up in reliability would be T7, but still a big heavy bike.
Kove and CF Moto are currently mixing things up, weight and performance-wise but reliability probably remains to be seen, in addition to manufacturers response to quality issues.
I have no experience with the Honda AT and TransAlp offerings, as well as with Suzuki.
My advice would be to err on the side of lighter, and used, giving you room to scale up in size and cost after you’ve likely sorted out the flavor of ADV you really enjoy
First, thank you @Rich_Strauss for taking the time to share your thoughts. I appreciate that.
Without a lot of dialog in response, your message is a familiar one among the experienced; I’ve read it before and that’s exactly why I went to the 450. It’s the biggest bang for what I want, where I live and what I have time for. Ideally a 6xx - 7xx format is the next sweet spot for ADV-ness, totally agree, but then there’s too much overlap with the 450 from my POV …and it then becomes superfluous.
I can add a nav tower and shield, swap tires, add a 1 - 2 gal Rotopax gas can to the 450 and I’m considerably closer to a longer distance, more comfortable ADV. It’s not ideal, but…
If you’re considering and have the budget for a 2nd bike then I’d recommend you look in the 700-900cc, multiple cylinder range rather then ADV-out the 450.
For what you’re describing, you’d probably enjoy the Africa Twin 1100, or the Transalp 750. The AT is a bit heavier yet a very capable BDR/off-road machine and way more comfortable for long days in the saddle. The Transalp has similar reviews, I’ve not ridden one so I can’t give reliable feedback on that specific machine, but I’ve heard really good things. It’s worth looking into. The 790/890 is significantly more off-road oriented, more clearance, higher foot peg position, rigid saddle, not very comfortable for all-day rides or multi-day treks. If you’re only off-road occasionally, and you have one bike in the quiver, the AT/Transalp is likely the better option. IMO.
The scramblers from Ducati and Triumph are cool but not long-range comfortable. They are versatile like 70’s bikes were, they can do anything, but nothing very well. They are nice 3rd bikes IMO. Based on your stated intention an off road focused ADV (790/890/901) may not be the right “fit”. The AFT 1000/1100 is likely closer.
Test ride a Ducati Multi Strada if you can. It handles curvy pavement with near sport bike prowess, is comfortable for touring, and can handle gravel roads easily. The second gen models from 2010 on were ahead of there time in terms of features for the electronics suite and the Testastretta V2 1200/1260 engine is excellent. The 2nd and 3rd gen models from 2010-2019 look like a good value on the used market. The S models have electronic Ohlins suspension and the Enduro version came with a 19” front wheel and more off road focused settings and drive modes.
Test Riding is where my rubber needs to be in order to sort out the sweet spot on the spectrum of what one gains and loses. My inclination is towards a bike that I can lift off the ground by myself; a bike that can wiggle up a techy spot here and there with greater vs lesser confidence; a bike that can run tarmac at 70 mph for an hour without nearly any discomfort.
I do that! Been lifting / strength training consistently since I was 10. I’ll always be an ectomorph body type, though. I like the Husky …the gentleman’s version of the rowdy 890 Adventure R …”Shaken, not stirred”
I am the new guy, so take this for what it is worth…
I did the CO BDR this year with a buddy on a 2023 390a (beginner) and another buddy on the 2024 T7 (intermediate rider). The beginner has since sold his 390a and bought a F900GS and he is a much better rider now. Lack of torque on the small bike actually made it harder to ride in the techy stuff as the engine had to be revved more. It also got blown around a lot at 65+ MPH. The T7 is an easy bike to ride once moving, but is very difficult to lift once it goes down. it generally took 2 people to pick it up when it was loaded with camping gear. My 890r is easy to lift (not even bad when loaded with luggage) and the ride modes tame the beast when needed. I am not a big guy… think 5’9” and cyclist build….
This is all to say small bikes aren’t necessarily easier. Mid weight bikes can be fine with the proper technique, ride modes, seat height, and weight in the right place to lift.
You and I are both newbies, then. I just did my first “show my face” ride at the poker run. It was great!
The CRF450RL doesn’t lack torque and top end …Vortex and Yoshi combined make that bike every bit, and more, of a ripper than my skill set can maximize. What it does lack is tarmac ride-ability at hwy speeds for more than 20-30 minutes. Plus it’s further mod’ed up to be more techie capable, which means less tarmac capable. It’s not an MX by any means, maybe an older kissin’ cousin to the MX? It does have MX DNA, though.
I will definitely continue to explore the well considered reviews by the reviewers that have knowledge and a broad spectrum of perspective …there are a few moto journalist that put out great content. Really appreciate the collective experiences of the wolf pack here. I would attribute John Young for my decision to get the Honda over an oiler burner KTM. I rode that KTM 300 XC in Leadville for two full days. I really liked it, but the 4 stroke Honda with a rear subframe and the ECU, Exhaust and other performance trickery made more sense.
The 890 / 901 is definitely on the top of the list and doesn’t ever get knocked off the top …save for what seemed to be electronic hiccups from 2 - 3 years ago.
I struggle with fitness and skill, and I love my Norden 901. I can’t believe the stuff I’ve ridden on it, especially with my lack of talent. Mine is a 2022 standard 901 though, and I wish it was an Expedition.
The lower weight distribution can not be overemphasized. 890/901’s with the saddlebag gas tanks, and the BMW1250/1300GS withe their low boxer engines both handle dramatically better than a lot of bikes, even ones that weigh less.
I rented an 890 from Riders Share in 2022, after reading about them for a couple years, and was sold by the end of the day. I also did that with a T7 and a BMW 850GS and was glad i could mark them off. The T7 is very cool, but I think maybe belongs in the hands of a more skilled rider than me. And it felt top-heavy compared to the 890, despite weighing less.
T7 - Yes, it’s got that Yamaha reliability and it does sit in a sweet spot between flick-ability and tarmac steadiness …according to the enthusiast/journalists. But the lifting up when your down is a problem. That’s a big neg for me.
the 890 Adventure R …I should test ride for a day before putting a ring on it.
