Ride Smoother

When i ride my T7 with the A group, they’re usually about 1–2 minutes faster than me before they wait at the next rest point. I’m trying to close that gap wisely.

I don’t think the answer is just more throttle. It’s probably more about riding smoother and carrying better momentum.

The main things I want to improve are:

  1. Corner momentum
    I may be slowing down too much before turns. I want to work on braking earlier, looking farther ahead, and rolling through corners smoother.
  2. Line choice
    Faster riders seem to pick cleaner lines, not just ride harder. I need to look ahead better and avoid bad rocks/ruts when possible.
  3. Standing position
    On the T7, being loose is huge. I need to use my legs more, keep my arms relaxed, and let the bike move underneath me instead of fighting the bars.
  4. Trusting the front tire
    I may be braking too much because I don’t fully trust the front end yet. Practicing smooth braking on dirt should help.
  5. Momentum in rough sections
    With a heavy bike like the T7, slowing down too much in rocks, sand, or washboards can make the bike feel heavier and less stable. I need to slow before the rough stuff, then keep light throttle and momentum through it.
  6. Fitness
    When I get tired, I get tighter and lose flow. I want to improve legs, core, grip endurance, and cardio.

Workout focus:

Wall sits
Step-ups
Goblet squats
Farmer carries
Planks / side planks
Romanian deadlifts
Bike or rower intervals

Simple weekly plan:

Monday: legs + core
Wednesday: upper body + grip + core
Friday: light conditioning
Weekend: ride

I also think mountain biking could help because it trains balance, line choice, braking, cornering, body position, and staying loose while the bike moves underneath you.

Bottom line: I’m only 1–2 minutes behind the A group, so I don’t think I’m far off. I think the biggest improvement will come from riding smoother, choosing better lines, trusting the front tire more, improving fitness, and staying relaxed .

I appreciate all of you guys good advice and this platform :folded_hands:

1 Like

Excellent post.

Some thoughts on riding a bike “smoother,” with “faster” as a result:

  • Ride your ride: don’t get caught up in keeping up. It’s simply not safe. If you feel like you’re getting closer and closer to the edge of your riding ability, be a grown ass adult and just slow down vs trying to keep up. See below.
  • Always keep some ability in reserve: that is, if I’m riding on a trail I know very well, I may ride at 80% of what I “could” ride. But if I’m in front and am worried about oncoming traffic…60-70%, and this concern drives my line choice, especially in right hand turns. If I’m solo…40-50%, if that.
  • Never outride your ability to fix the problem you don’t yet see: unknown terrain, blind corners, don’t know what’s on the other side of this small hill, etc. Using the Sedalia ride as an example, when we were riding in areas where SxS and other traffic was likely, I was very cautious in blind corners, would hug the bushes in right turns, etc. But if the terrain opened up and I could see far ahead, I’d open it up a bit. And since @Jason_Pennington was usually riding behind me, I imagine he felt safer with me in front “sweeping” the trail of oncoming traffic, could possibly follow my lines, etc. I know this is how I ride when I have a good rider in front of me to cue off of.
  • Learn how to go faster by learning how to slow down, very quickly: that is, when you practice and learn how aggressively you can brake, hard, when you need to, you then decrease the reaction time and space you need to fix the problem you don’t yet see. This allows you to ride t little faster, or to ride at the same speed safer, because you have more ability in reserve. I have confidence in my tires, suspension, the offroad ABS on the 790 (it’s my favorite thing about the bike), and my ability to safely manage a maximum braking situation, so that when that situation comes up, I know I can go ham on the brakes and slow down, A LOT, very quickly.
  • Aggressive, “attack” riding position. This is an excellent demonstration of riding position and letting the bike move under you. Or rather, getting out of the way of the bike so it can do it’s thing.
  • Learn how to ride a small bike fast, then transfer those reflexes and skills to a bigger bike: skills learned on a small bike scale up to bigger, heavier bikes. But learning how to ride a big bike fast, using only a big bike, can be painful and will be expensive. Physics happens fast with 450-500lb and these big bikes are generally much less forgiving. I basically ride the 790 exactly the same as a 500, just a couple ticks slower and more deliberately: line choice, body position, and managing momentum on a big bike all need to be more planned and thoughtful.
  • Learn how to ride a big bike, slowly: a large motorcycle rewards an active rider, who is moving their body and weight around, a lot, on the bike in order to give it steering and balance inputs. Parking lot drills, figure 8’s, and generally anything that forces to really get your weight hanging off the bike. This trains you to be very active on the bike in all situations, so that no only are you getting out of the way of the bike so it can do it’s thing (see riding position above), but also so that you’re comfortable with pushing your weight way off the bike this way so the bike can go that way.
  • Commit to the line you have, even if it’s not the line you wanted: big bikes have a LOT of momentum at nearly any speed. It’s amazing what you can get them through when you commit yourself to not stopping, period, for any reason :call_me_hand: . There’s the line you wanted, and the line you’ve got. Regardless, commit, push through it and don’t stop. Because if a suddenly stopped big bike is just a little bit out of balance, it’s going over and all you can do is get out of the way. Then you’ll smoke yourself picking up your 450lb bike in gnarly terrain.
  • Sit when you can, stand when you should: this is related to your fitness comments above. Just because you’re no longer on pavement doesn’t mean you “need” to stand. Think energy conservation, always, and stand when your brain defines the terrain you see in front of you as technical. Don’t just stand because the rider in front of you is standing. What’s easy or technical for him may not be the same for you. Ride your ride, sit when you can (saving energy) and stand when you should (let the bike do the hard work under you).
  • Physical Fitness: is a very overlooked component to riding smoother and faster. I parked a ton of stuff over here: FITNESS AND RIDING TECHNIQUE

Again, great discussion and it would be helpful to get input from others as well

4 Likes

Thanks for the comprehensive reply. That was very helpful Summarizing my thoughts and getting a better practice moving forward I appreciate it.

( and I have the orange Rocky Talkie mic for you) :ok_hand:

1 Like

I view speed as a byproduct of good techniques and good choices. It is not something you pursue in and of itself, it is achieved over time not created in an instant.

The attack position video that @Rich_Strauss posted is an excellent example. To me this is 100% foundational and what allows all other aspects of riding to develop.

Key video take aways:

  • This forward position is proper for acceleration/sustained speed. Under braking the head and shoulders move back to shift weight rearward; arms extend, hips shift backward and flex, back flattens and lowers.

  • Notice how much the bike is moving relative to the rider’s head–bike moves ALOT head does NOT. With head stable and eyes stable, focus is maintained.

  • Rider’s torso is stable, your torso is a large mass if it is tossed around with the bike like a rag doll balance is adversely affected and the chassis/handling is impacted. A quiet upper body aids handling and decreases fatigue.

  • Knees stay mostly above the feet and are mostly straight. If your knees bend excessively it adds to fatigue, like doing squats.

  • Hip movement fore and aft distributes the riders weight front to rear, not knee movement.

  • Arms and legs absorb impacts to the chassis and suspension allowing head and torso to remain stable.

  • Arms and shoulders are loose and flexible. (A motorcycle is inherently stable, the geometry–rake angle, trail, and gyroscopic forces of the wheels–will keep it rolling in the direction it is pointed) A rider’s OVER INPUT is destabilizing. If you tense your arms you counteract the physics providing stability to the machine and you exacerbate reaction forces that sway your torso and head leading to further imbalance.

I equate smooth as being relaxed, gentle with my control inputs, and riding to conserve energy. Fitness allows greater comfort and extended ride time, but technique is what allows you to conserve energy instead of expending it needlessly.

Riding is more about core stability and balance than absolute strength; more like yoga and Pilates and less like power lifting. Unless you must pick your loaded ADV bike up… then strength is a bonus!

Trusting the front tire: Learn it, don’t trust it. Different conditions, surfaces, tires, suspension settings and tire pressures yield varying amounts of traction. You develop an understanding of these variables through practice and observation. On a BCADV group ride earlier this year I crashed on black ice. I was trusting that I could use the same steering input I had used in a few previous corners, but the corner where I crashed had more shade, and snow-melt run-off that I did not take into consideration. Luckily the bike and I were fine so my tuition for this lesson was low.

Dirt focused motorcycles are designed to be stable with a rear weight bias. Using the throttle to take weight off the front tire and transfer it to the rear helps the chassis to work as designed. Adam Reimann refers to this as “relaxing the chassis”. You don’t need to rely as much on front grip if the rear is driving and drifting to help steer.

4 Likes

Spot on @Rich_Strauss, Great write up bruh!!

2 Likes

Thanks Jason that was very educational :raising_hands:

1 Like

@Beni7542 your not bad at riding that Tenere, You live near sedalia. I think if you start hitting it two or three times a month the skills you feel you are lacking in will improve fast. A lot of this is seat time, and playing around with different techniques.

1 Like

If we’re dispensing riding technique, I’d love to hear more about how to get faster cornering on graded gravel roads. That’s one place where I just can’t keep up with a few of you. I’m just waiting for the front end to wash out.

That whole “relax the chassis” concept is extremely ambiguous. I take it like countersteering and letting the bike lean and turn without me the rider being tense and trying to force the turn. I try to be chill, but good lord do I not want to go down at 50 miles an hour on a cheese grater surface. Too many similar mtb wrecks in the past.

More throttle. Steer with the rear. Taking a dirt track class like Danny Walker’s American Supercamp is invaluable for this technique. Can’t underline this enough.

4 Likes

100% . I’m trying to take advantage of every opportunity I have to ride at Rampart as well as doing solo ride practices .

To me this comes down to getting a good feel for the moto under you when you break the back end loose. As Vince said, steer with the rear. Counter steering on gravel/dirt applies the same as on pavement, but when the rear tire is spinning under you the counter steering can feel like over steering relative to pavement. I find it helpful to find a nice sweeper you can let it rip around and then feel out how micro adjustments to counter steering while standing/attack position under throttle play out.

1 Like

Generally:

  • Separate the lean of the bike from your body. That is, your body is rather straight up and down as you lean the bike away from you in the turn.
  • Lefthand turn, for example: If standing, you’re weighting the outside peg, pushing the bike away from you to the left (left arm is straight-ish, right arm is bent) If sitting, you’re sitting on the right side of the seat, arms pushing bike into the turn and away from you in the same manner above.
  • If you want to break the back wheel out a bit to help it steer you more quickly through the turn, you can do that with the throttle but also by weighting the inside vs outside peg. Find a straight dirt road and slalom a bit, getting a feel for how the combination of throttle and weighting the inside peg will make the rear wheel step out a bit. It’s also fun :slight_smile:

But I hear you. I personally feel that this type of road and riding is some of the more dangerous stuff we ride. It’s often near the start or end of a “proper” ride, when we are feel most froggy or more tired. Increase likelihood in oncoming vehicle traffic. And combination of loose pebbles on top of hard pack dirt makes it feel super slick and sketch. This is another situation where I really, really appreciate the off-road ABS on the 790.

In general, terrain that yields “I want to have more fun and the primary way to make that happen in this terrain is to go faster” = a higher risk. So I’m mindful of this and try to just chill and relax before the next legitimately fun section. Fun as a function of application of riding technique vs simple speed.

1 Like

Here is my free novella about low traction cornering. There is a ton of good material in this thread already, and I’m reiterating some points for clarity. Brake/power sliding around low traction corners is one of my favorite things about riding. Obviously, you should practice this in an area where you are unlikely to encounter oncoming traffic or the consequences to overshooting a turn are low (no trees/cliffs.)

The following drills assume a stable and effective standing riding posture. Weight and bike contact is focused in the pegs, assisted by the legs/knees, and there is almost no weight on the bars. In fact, this is the last time you’ll hear about the handlebars at all. Let them do their thing.

Getting comfortable breaking traction and regaining traction in corners is a skillset that can result in speed but more importantly it will allow you to stop abruptly.

Any use of ABS or traction control in these drills will limit one’s ability to consistently and reliably train the muscle memory to break and regain traction. Turn it all off at least for focused practice. It is an excellent safety feature, but a dead end for developing deep and transferable skills.

Here are two drills that helped me build confidence, speed, and a safety margin in low-traction turns. All drills assume a flat, low-traction gravel or dirt surface in a safe open area or road with sufficient visibility. Reps are the key here, we’re not just learning a theoretical concept, we’re training our reflexes. The goal is to train our body to respond to rapidly changing conditions and circumstances, so that we can respond quickly and correctly without having to think about it. Practicing intentionally for 10-15 minutes every time you ride will likely yield faster results than practicing for two hours straight every so often. As was mentioned earlier in the thread, it is best to start with brake slides before power slides because it’s easier to go fast than it is to slow down. This way you’ll already be in greater control when you start applying more power and increasing speed. These techniques can and should be integrated into regular riding, but it’s easiest to isolate them in a safe and controlled environment first.

  1. Brake Slides
    Start by travelling in a straight line in a standing position at 20-25mph. Apply rear brake pressure until the rear tire locks and begins to slide. Gently release brake pressure to regain traction and control. Try this with your hips forward over the tank, and with your hips rearward over the seat to feel the difference. Try this with more weight on one peg or the other. Can you continue to steer while your rear tire is locked?
    Any time the slide feels uncontrollable, gently release brake pressure. This release is the muscle memory we need to train for safe braking on low traction surfaces.

Once this feels comfortable, predictable, and even boring in a straight line, repeat the drill but add just the slightest turn. At 20-25mph, in a slight turn, while standing, look through the apex of your turn and apply rear brake pressure until the rear tire breaks traction. Instead of tracking straight in a slide, the rear tire will begin to slide to the outside of the turn. Again, gently release brake pressure to regain traction and stand the bike up. Repeat this drill with your hips forward, and to the rear, and with more weight on the inside peg or the outside peg. Playing with weight shifting and weight transfer will lead to a looser relationship between your body and the bike. Many people will try to “give away the answer” at this stage by explicitly describing which peg to weight or where to position your hips, etc. In practice, I’m seeing most people improve much faster when they experiment for themselves and experience the results of various positions. We are attempting to decouple our body from the bike, so that it can turn and lean beneath us.

This drill can be repeated and accentuated until you are effectively steering with the rear brake, and releasing it at the right moment to allow you to regain traction and be travelling in a new direction. Once the rear brake slide is committed to muscle memory (this could take days or months, not hours, don’t rush it) the front brake can be incorporated as well, at 20-30% the pressure of the rear. It is quite possible to lock both the rear and then the front while entering a full sideways “hockey stop” and scrub a ton of speed while changing direction and setting up for your next line. I’ve successfully avoided two near accidents this year with a full sideways hockey stop when a truck or side-by-side quickly pulled out into a gravel road in front of me. I was grateful to have spent so many hours sliding around turns on purpose.

  1. Power Slides
    Once again, the goal is slow, incremental progression. Depending on the bike and the surface, breaking traction can be accomplished through the throttle alone, or through a combination of throttle and clutch control. A lower torque bike or a higher traction surface will necessitate use of the clutch to break rear wheel traction. While power application with the clutch is harder to learn initially because there are more inputs happening simultaneously, clutch work is a more useful and transferable skill set. Due to the range of circumstances and bikes, etc I’m going to simplify all of this as “increase power” or “decrease power” for the rest of the drill.

In a straight line, while standing, travelling at around 20-25mph, increase power until you break rear traction. To regain traction and control, release power. Again, try this with your hips in different positions, and weighting one peg or the other. Generally, you will want to move your hips and center of gravity forward to counteract the acceleration and decrease weight on the rear tire, which will allow it to break free more easily. The muscle memory we’re training here is to regain traction and control through decreasing power.

Once this feels predictable, comfortable, and even boring, we can introduce a slight turn. Same thing as the brake slides, 20-25mph in a slight turn, looking through the turn, increase power until the rear tire breaks traction. The rear will start to slide to the outside of your turn, the bike may start to lean underneath you. Decrease power to regain traction and control, and the bike will stand up.

To develop and accentuate the skill, you can start with a sharper turn at the same speed before increasing power. The rear will slide out more quickly, but gently decreasing power will have the same effect of regaining traction and control.

Have fun, be safe.

A note on coming from cycling:
There are at least two reasons this is different than a MTB. The physics and muscle memory of high speed turns on gravel can be practiced and ‘felt’ at low and therefore safe speeds. 20-25 mph is plenty. A controlled lowside on gravel in full gear is unlikely to result in serious injury. You will fare much better sliding in moto armor than you will in the silky underwear that I’ve seen you cyclists wearing. If you practicing braking technique first, and then adding power progressively, you may never need to slide out at all.

The MTB also has drastically less gyroscopic effect. Breaking traction and spinning the rear wheel in a turn will cause the bike to slide out from under you, but also increases the gyroscopic forces that make the bike want to “stand up”. This is why a rapid and aggressive increase in power can actually stabilize or right the bike as it enters a deep low traction turn, or when riding in loose terrain like sand. Basically, if you’re doing a burnout, the bike will be attempting to right itself. This is a force that wouldn’t be at play while turning a MTB, since the wheels are so much lighter and the ability to increase the power is so moderate.

A note on coming from street riding:
As a ‘reformed’ street rider, I spent many years avoiding losing traction, especially in turns. It is a total paradigm shift to break traction intentionally and it feel utterly wrong at first. It may take longer to get comfortable with this technique if you have a street riding background since your whole nervous system will resist and your body may tend to stiffen and panic. I’ve seen people with no riding experience at all learn gravel cornering much more quickly than people with “tons of riding experience.” So be patient with yourself, start small, practice often.

5 Likes

Thanks to all the contributions here. Practical and easy to try. As a relatively new rider there is so much noise out there and we all know how you can get sucked into YouTube and other videos. Having this community asking questions and getting feedback is really cool and something I appreciate.

1 Like

That was very informative.

Thanks for explaining and sharing all this information

Great practice drills and nicely presented Michael!

This is awesome, thank you michael! I need to take a weekend and just find some spot to work on skills.